Episode 3: Lamia Wahba

In this episode, we meet Dr. Lamia Wahba, a Head of Lab at The Rockefeller University who studies non-DNA-based inheritance in C. elegans to understand how it works in humans. Beyond the lab, we learn about Dr. Wahba’s upbringing in Egypt and Virginia, the rowing habits that shaped her friendships and daily routine, and how good mentors can help you envision yourself as a scientist.

This episode was hosted and recorded by Shimla and Sarah.

Beyond the Lab is produced by RockEDU Science Outreach and was recorded during the 2025 Summer Science Research Program (SSRP). To learn more, visit rockefeller.edu/outreach.

Listen to Beyond the Lab on Spotify or Apple Podcasts! For audio with closed-captioning, please visit our YouTube page.

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Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.

Sarah: Hello!

Shimla: Hello! Okay, we’re ready to start then.

Sarah: Okay, we are ready to start.

Shimla: Um, okay.

Lamia: A lot of times it’s like, oh, I’m the only person that knows this answer. Or maybe there’s a handful of people, but there’s billions of people on the planet. It’s very cool to be able to experience that.

Shimla: Hi everyone. I’m Shimla.

Sarah: I’m Sarah.

Shimla: And this is…

In unison: Beyond The Lab!

Shimla: Welcome to Beyond the Lab, the podcast where we discuss all things not science with the world’s leading scientists.

Sarah: Today we’re honored to speak to Dr. Lamia Wahba, head of the Wahba Lab at The Rockefeller University.

Shimla: Dr. Lamia Wahba is a faculty member at Rockefeller University who studies how traits can be passed down through molecules like RNAs and proteins, not just through DNA. Her lab uses tiny worms called C. elegans to explore how this kind of inheritance affects development, fertility, and long-term evolution.

Sarah: Now we will be moving on to the icebreaker. So Dr. Wahba, what is your favorite dessert and why?

Lamia: (laughs) Ooh, um, I’m gonna go with chocolate croissants. Yep, you guys got it right.

Sarah: So I got it right!

Lamia: Yeah, you got it right. And why? Because I love chocolate.

Sarah: For context, I got her a chocolate croissant ’cause I was like, you know what? Everyone loves chocolate. And I hit the nail on the dot, so I’m really gleeful right now. I got the right option.

Shimla: I’m the opposite. I like vanilla more, but like dessert-wise I love flan. It’s just one of those things like you can’t have too much of it, too little of it, it’s just awesome. And I always make it at home.

Lamia: Oh wow. Okay, so next time I’ll expect a flan.

Sarah: I would say my favorite dessert is probably chocolate ice cream. I feel like especially in the summertime, just hearing the ice cream truck I get so excited.

Lamia: Yeah, I’ve been having a lot of ice cream this past summer.

Sarah: You can never go wrong with [it], so I would say that’s my favorite.

Shimla: Okay, so now I guess this is the real first segment. So our first question is: did you always want to be a scientist and why or why not?

Lamia: So when I was younger, I don’t think I really verbalized the interest in becoming a scientist until I was in high school. Probably because most people, unless you have a scientist in your family, you don’t really get exposure to the research side of things. You read textbooks and you read it as knowledge that, “Oh, we know this happens in the cell…” But I didn’t really– I don’t think I thought about how we get to that information. And I was familiar with historical scientists, like Darwin and Marie Curie. But I didn’t necessarily know any modern day scientists. So I don’t think I thought about it. But I always had an interest in science. I remember really being interested in biology. My parents are both doctors. And so we had exposure to scientific concepts even at home. And then when I was in high school, I really loved biology. And I decided I really wanted to major in it. But I wasn’t super excited about the thought of being a doctor myself. And so I just decided, oh, I’m just going to figure it out.

And then actually, when I went to college, I went to a place called William & Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia. And there’s a great set of professors that do scientific research that’s geared towards teaching undergrads how to do research, and I got exposed to it. They actually pulled me into it. They would– Every student had to do in their first year some scientific research experience and I did that and I was like, oh, this is really fun! And that’s how I got into it.

Shimla: That’s kind of like me too because I also come from a family of doctors. So I guess growing up, I would always feel like, oh, you’re gonna be a doctor, you’re gonna be a doctor. But I didn’t really want to be that. And then I got into SSRP. I kind of did it on a whim. I was like, I’ll just see what this side of science is about. And I did fall in love with it. And now I’m considering maybe a PhD or like…

Lamia: Awesome.

Shimla: So it’s very heartwarming to hear a similar story.

Sarah: Yeah, same for me. I feel like growing up, I never really knew what I wanted to do really. But until I started doing these science internships ’cause it was like, you know what, these are nearby, why not try it? I really liked, you know, just doing research, pipetting and like all that good stuff.

Shimla: I guess aside from science, did you have any other interesting subjects at school or other interests?

Lamia: Yeah, I mean… So when I, from [an] academic perspective, I did actually think about when I was in college, whether I wanted to continue in biology, [or] do a bit more math. But I just fell in love more with the questions that you can ask in biology. And you were asking questions that were really relevant to the human experience and to how the human body or human biology works. And so ultimately, I decided at the end of undergrad, I really liked that aspect more and that connection to humans more.

Shimla: That’s also definitely one of the most important parts for me too, just being able to see the direct impact of my work.

Sarah: Yeah, I also feel like a really good thing about science is that it’s taught me, especially at SSRP, that you’re going to make mistakes along the way. You get to experience failure, but failure is the key to success, as they say. So I feel like you get to learn more and more and ask yourself more questions.

Lamia: Yeah.

Sarah: Going back to your childhood, is there a food or maybe a taste of something that brings you nostalgia by any chance, like maybe like a family dinner?

Lamia: So I grew up in Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Shimla: Oh wow!

Lamia: And we had these cookies that are locally made, but they’re the equivalent of Loacker. You know, like the wafers with chocolate inside. And Loackers are way better. But there’s a version that every time we go to Egypt, I get from like the little bodega down the street. And the reason they’re not that good is actually, a lot of the times the glue to close the actual wrapping is not closed all the way…

Sarah: (laughing) Oh my God.

Lamia: …so it’s just kind of a little bit stale. And so there was always this like lottery type thing where you’re like, am I gonna get a stale one or am I gonna get a good one this time?

Sarah: So like also that relates back to science, the sparks of curiosity.

Lamia: Yeah, and you do an experiment and you never know, like is it gonna be a good experiment? Is it gonna work as expected or not?

Sarah: So I guess the next question we wanna ask is: maybe like growing up, did you do any odd jobs?

Lamia: I didn’t do any odd jobs, but I did work at a Walgreens the summer between high school and undergrad. So I moved to the U.S. when I was in high school. And so I really just had that one, that was the one summer that I had in the U.S. in high school years. And outside of the U.S., maybe it’s changed a little bit now, but certainly in the Middle East, there wasn’t a culture of working as a high school student. Like you just kind of like– There’s good, which is good and bad. Like you just kind of enjoyed your summer. And you went to the seaside and just [hung] out with your cousins all summer long. And so that was the first summer that I had an opportunity to think about like, what do I wanna do with my summer? And I decided to work at the Walgreens ’cause I was like, oh look, you know, being a cashier seems like a really fun thing to do. And I don’t know that it lived up to that expectation. It was a little boring. ‘Cause the challenge that I had was there was lots of downtime, you know? Especially during the day, there would be stretches of hours in the middle of the day where nobody was coming in. And so I had to just stand there.

I remember after that summer, I was like, “I never want to be a cashier again.” Which is actually partly why I did research over the summers. That first summer, after my freshman year, I wanted to do– I wanted to figure out, what do I do? And I was like, “I really don’t want to be a cashier again.” And I actually just saw a flyer that said like, “Oh, are you interested in doing summer research? Like come apply to my lab.” And this is the lab of Diane Shakes. I worked in her [lab] summer after that summer. I worked in her lab all throughout undergrad during the summers and during the school year. And so it shaped me in that being a summer cashier one summer…

Sarah: It was like, I am never doing this again.

Lamia: Yeah, exactly. It made me commit to research over the summers.

Shimla: Did you face any cultural shocks, aside from everyone being busy? Like when you moved to America.

Lamia: Oh, when I moved to the U.S., I think the bigger culture shock was actually that I grew up in big cities and we moved to the suburbs. We moved to Virginia Beach.

Shimla: Oh, wow.

Lamia: So I think, I feel like that was the bigger culture shock. It was just having to drive everywhere and not being able to be independent. And then I met a lot of people there that had never traveled and so they’d never been to the Middle East and they’re not familiar with Egypt. So I think that was the bigger culture shock. If I had moved to New York City, I think there would have been probably no culture shock.

Sarah: Oh wow.

Shimla: So this just feels like home then.

Lamia: New York City definitely just feels like home, yeah. The ambulance is passing by all the time, like the car beeping, yeah.

Sarah: Wait, where in Egypt did you grow up?

Lamia: In Cairo.

Sarah: Okay.

Lamia: Yeah, Cairo is like… Yeah, it’s like a more intense version of New York City. I don’t know how many people live in New York, but it’s like maybe three or four million, something like that…

Shimla: Yeah.

Lamia: Cairo is 16 million.

Shimla: Oh my God.

Sarah: Oh my goodness.

Lamia: So it’s like just a magnified version of New York City.

Shimla: I don’t think I can handle that.

Lamia: No, it’s really…

Shimla: I mean, Times Square…I just like zone out.

Lamia: Exactly, it’s like Times Square, but everywhere.

Shimla: Oh no.

Sarah: Everywhere, oh gosh.

Lamia: Yeah.

Sarah: Sounds too chaotic.

Lamia: It is very chaotic.

Shimla: Were there any superstitions or traditions that you swore by growing up personally or in your household?

Lamia: Oh, very many. I think the funniest one probably in our culture is that– There’s two. One is that you can’t leave your shoes facing up. You know, the bottom of– Shouldn’t have the soles of your shoes facing up. It’s bad luck.

Shimla: Oh, I’ve heard of that.

Lamia: For some reason, yeah. And so even to this day, if I see my shoes or my son’s shoes are upside down, I have to go and fix them. So I’m like, oh, it’s bad luck. That’s one. And then another one that is very cultural that I still kind of adhere to, and one could argue it comes a little bit from religion, but it’s actually permeated in the whole culture, regardless of whether you’re religious or not, is you would say, “Inshallah,” after everything.

Shimla: Oh, we do that.

Lamia: Yeah, and so I just say it after. And what we learned growing up is, “Oh, if you don’t say it, it’s not gonna happen.”

Sarah: Oh, yeah.

Shimla: Oh, interesting.

Lamia: So then, so it’s like every time I’m like, even if it’s like, “Oh, I’m gonna run this PCR later on,” I’m like, “Inshallah.”

Shimla: Inshallah.

(laughing)

Sarah: No, that’s true. It’s like whenever I do something, my mom has–’cause my mom’s religious–she’s ingrained [in] me to say, “Inshallah,” to like everything. Yeah. It’s not gonna happen. You need God’s luck, or else it’s not happening.

Shimla: For me, because we’re not that religious, I guess we kind of use it like, if I ask my mom to do something, or if I’m like, “Oh, can I go out to the park?” “Can we have dinner later outside?” She’ll be like, “Inshallah,” which is her way of saying, “Probably not.”

Sarah: What’s something about your present self that your childhood self would be surprised about?

Lamia: I guess it would be, you know… I think even as a grad student doing a PhD, I couldn’t quite envision being a professor and running a lab. It kind of seemed daunting, but in all honesty, it also still felt like, even though I love science, I was like, “Oh, being a professor seems like a boring job. I’m gonna find a more interesting job than this.” And so I think [a] younger version of me would be surprised that this is what I’m doing and that I also really love it. It’s actually like, oh, it wasn’t as boring as I thought it was gonna be, it’s actually a really fun job.

Shimla: Okay, and now we have a special segment called…

Shimla and Sarah in unison: Dr. Wahba‘s Favorite Things!

Shimla: We’re required to say it together.

Sarah: Yeah. So our first question is, do you have a favorite book?

Lamia: Ooh, like in any genre?

Sarah: In any genre.

Lamia: It’s hard to pick just one. I guess I’ll say, growing up I read Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys. I don’t know if they’re still a thing.

Shimla: I was going to be Nancy Drew for Halloween.

Lamia: Oh really?

Shimla: I was thinking of that.

Lamia: Really? Oh fun. And I read every single one. I was always excited for them to come out. So I’m gonna just pick the whole series of Nancy Drew as my favorite.

Shimla: That’s very fair.

Sarah: Yeah. I’m more into movies than books, but however, there’s this book series called Diary of Wimpy Kid that I’ve read since elementary school. I’ve read the whole series, and it’s so funny, and I guess that’s my favorite.

Lamia: That’s fun.

Shimla: Speaking of movies, do you have a favorite movie or TV show?

Lamia: Oh yes, I have a favorite TV show, Only Murders in the Building. And the origin of it is that I really liked the podcasts–like the true crime podcast[s]–I was really into them. And so when they said there was a show about making podcasts about true crime, I was like, okay, this is gonna be interesting.

Shimla: I heard Selena is filming a new season right now. I’m so excited.

Lamia: I’m very excited.

Shimla: Oh my gosh.

Lamia: And now that I live in New York, it feels even more special.

Sarah: It feels surreal.

Shimla: It does.

Lamia: I’m wondering how much longer they can keep it up, ’cause there’s only so many surprise murders that you can say… I’m like, okay, they probably have one or two more good seasons left in them.

Shimla: Do you have a favorite show?

Lamia: Yeah, do you have a favorite show?

Sarah: My favorite TV show, it’s so stereotypical, but I love The Office so much.

Lamia: That’s a good show.

Sarah: And like That 70s Show. I’m a huge fan of sitcoms. This is kind of different from Only Murders in the Building, but I do also love true crime shows. Now I have to check out this show after this.

Lamia: I think you’re gonna, yeah, you’ll enjoy it.

Sarah: Okay.

Lamia: Selena‘s really good in it.

Sarah: So I guess the next type of question that we have is what is your favorite sport to play or watch?

Lamia: That’s an easy one. I started rowing when I was a junior in college and then I did it basically on and off like through graduate school, through being a postdoc. So I love it.

Shimla: How did you even get into it? I feel like it’s such a niche thing.

Lamia: It is, yeah. But well– So in college it’s one of the few sports that you can actually walk onto with no prior knowledge, because it’s very rare for high schools to have rowing teams. There’s maybe in Boston or something, or in New England where there’s a little bit more of a culture of rowing, but in most places you don’t have rowing teams, and so it’s easy to pick it up in college. It’s hard when you go to college, if you don’t already know how to play soccer or tennis, yeah, sure you can pick it up, but you can’t really be on a team.

Shimla: Yeah.

Lamia: So I was looking, like I really wanted to do a sport when I was in college, and somebody was like, “Oh, you should try rowing. They’re always taking new people.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll try it.” And yeah, and then I really loved it.

Shimla: What do you like about it?

Lamia: What do I love about it? It’s a perfect mix of, it’s an individual sport… You know, it’s a lot like science. It’s like it’s an individual sport, but then there’s also a team aspect ’cause you’re in a boat with other people. Every person has to push their own selves, but you have to be in sync with everybody else for the boat to actually move. And so I love that aspect. And then also it’s like, there’s a big community aspect to rowing. All of my best friends have come from rowing, like my rowing team. None of us actually really row anymore ’cause we all have jobs and kids and stuff. So we’re all on an extended break, but we all formed our relationships over rowing ’cause there’s like, you would go out after you go for a row. And then it is, I love waking up early in the morning. I still do that. I wake up at like 5:30 in the morning. I start my day early, and most rowing happens very early in the morning because that’s when the water is most still. There’s not a lot of wind, and so there is something very special about being out on the water as the sun is rising. You sort of see the day starting.

Sarah: Is there like a to-go place to go rowing?

Lamia: Around here actually, which is also part of why– So I haven’t done it since I moved here, partly because I had a kid and he’s my hobby now, taking care of my kid. But also there’s nowhere really close to here. Like you have to go up to Harlem to find good rowing water.

Shimla: You kind of mentioned your kid being your favorite hobby. But maybe aside from that.

Lamia: I know, aside from that now. So we’ve been in New York City for two and a half years now. And so we’re still exploring it. And I had been to New York City before, but I hadn’t obviously lived here. And so a lot of what we do on the weekends is we just explore the neighborhoods. We do lots of walking around town just to get a feel of the city and feel out the different neighborhoods. So I would say that’s part of our hobby too.

Shimla: I saw somewhere on the lab website it mentioned like 20K steps.

Lamia: Yeah, I’m still actually hitting that number. Yeah, we do a lot of walking.

Sarah: Wait like per day?

Lamia: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, goodness. That’s my summer goal, to reach like 10K steps a day.

Lamia: That’s a good goal.

Sarah: Yeah, but it’s kind of hard. It’s like really hard.

Lamia: Yeah, these days it’s very hard, yeah.

Shimla: Do you cook? Do you cook or bake?

Lamia: I do not bake, I’m not a baker, but I do love cooking and we do a lot. Actually as a lab, when we go on our lab retreats, the prime activity we do is we cook a meal together. Yeah, I try to cook like three or four times a week. I try to instill the love of cooking in my son as well.

Shimla: Does he pick up on it or no?

Lamia: A little bit, yeah. He likes to help. You know, he’ll add the salt at the end. And yeah, it’s very cute.

Sarah: Wait, that’s actually so cute!

Shimla: That is cute. I guess kind of keeping the food theme, do you have a favorite restaurant or bakery?

Lamia: Ooh, bakery, that’s a good question. So actually the other thing we do in the lab is we always have pastries at lab meetings. So we used to live here in the Upper East Side and I would basically try to find– to get something from every bakery I could find, like in the neighborhood. And now we moved downtown, and now I’m doing… I’m excited because now I have more bakeries to pick from. I love Maman. It’s like a local French café.

Shimla: I think I see a lot of it.

Lamia: Yeah, with the pretty blue. And they always have lots of flowers. That one is really good. And then Supermoon, which is I think a very popular one. Yeah, those are our two favorites.

Sarah: So moving on to the next question, you are like traveling around? And you have that goal of 20K steps a day. What is your favorite spot to travel or to vacation?

Lamia: Okay, well, I’ll stay on the water theme because once or twice a year, we’ll always do a sailing vacation. ‘Cause we really just like being on a boat where, instead of like, you’re in a hotel and you go back and forth, like we’ll be on the boat and then we’ll go somewhere where you can go from one island to the next and just jump off the boat. Yeah, we really love that. So we usually try to go once a year, usually around Thanksgiving, we’ll go to the Caribbean. That’s a popular destination for us.

Sarah: Do you have a favorite spot that you like?

Shimla: To vacation? Wow, it’s been so long since I went on a vacation, I’ll be honest.

Sarah: I hope I soon go to more countries. I have like, I think five or six countries that I’ve gone to and I hope to expand that bucket list.

Shimla: That sounds like a good dream. I think on my bucket list, I have like this one bucket list for like my entire life.

Sarah: Really?

Shimla: Like one of the things on there is [to] meet my doppelganger. It’s just silly stuff. But one of the things is [to] visit at least 60 countries by the time I’m 80.

Sarah: That’s a really good goal. So now we’d like to ask you about your life as a scientist and your life at Rockefeller. So our first question is: what was your journey to Rockefeller? As [you] said that you lived in California, you lived in Virginia. What was your journey like coming to New York City and having a lab here?

Lamia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I went to undergrad in Virginia at William & Mary and then I actually then moved to Baltimore, Maryland for graduate school at Hopkins. And then actually I didn’t choose California myself. I was in a lab and doing my PhD. I had just started my PhD. I was maybe six or seven months into being in that lab, and the professor that I worked for decided that he wanted to move to California, to Berkeley. And he asked if I wanted to go. You know, he asked people like, “Do you want to come or do you want to stay in Baltimore?” I would have had to [find] a different lab if I had stayed in Baltimore, and I really loved that lab, I really loved the project, and so I said I would move with him. And so a smaller group of us moved with him, so I moved to Berkeley. That’s how I ended up in California.

Sarah: Not by choice.

Lamia: Not by choice, but it was a great move. And then when I moved there, when I was thinking about postdocs, I decided like, probably because I had just moved there like a few years ago, I was like, oh, I’ll just stay in the Bay Area and find something. There’s lots of great universities there. I’ll just find something in the area for a postdoc. And so I went to Stanford for a postdoc. And then yeah, and then when I was deciding– When I decided I wanted to apply for academic jobs, I was trying to pick basically the coasts. So I actually didn’t really, in all honesty, know Rockefeller that well as a school.

Sarah: Oh, okay.

Lamia: I mean, it’s a great school. Historically, I think it was much better known for neuroscience. So I didn’t necessarily think about Rockefeller specifically, but I was looking in the New York area as well. So I applied to schools in California and New York and New Jersey. And then when I came to visit, I fell in love with it. It’s a beautiful campus, lots of great professors. It’s a very tight-knit community as well, and I really loved that aspect of it.

Shimla: So was there any moment where you decided to be a Head of Lab, or was it just kind of an impulse decision?

Lamia: At every step, I would always just think about the next stage, rather than further out. And so I wasn’t really thinking, “oh, do I want to be a PI or not?” I kind of couldn’t envision it. And I was like, I’ll just worry about that question later. And so then at the end of my postdoc, I was thinking about what do I want to do? And I decided I really love the particular aspects about being a PI, which is like, you get to ask your own questions. So you get to think about hard science questions, but then you get the flexibility and the space to figure out “how do I best answer those questions?” And I’m really motivated by basic science type questions, that may not be necessarily as directly translational in the short term period on human health. And so those questions are best answered in an academic setting.

And so, I think it was a decision that I probably reached in the last seven or eight months of my postdoc where I decided like, oh no, I really actually wanna try to be a PI. So it wasn’t a split decision. I mean, I did think about it a lot. And I think what happens for a lot of people is you think about it throughout your career and there’s lots of times where you can’t envision it happening, right? And that’s why it’s really important to have role models that look like you doing whatever it is that you want to do, because they can help you envision it. They can help you think, “Oh, I can see myself doing that because I see this person doing it.” And so, I would say at some point it did just click. Like, oh, I can actually envision it in my head. I can manifest it.

Shimla: Oh, I like that.

Sarah: What has been the most influential part of your journey as a scientist?

Lamia: Oh, I would say definitely the very beginning. Like I think the time where you are shaped the most is when you are first being introduced to science and how you do science and how you ask good questions. Like I learned from my undergrad advisor how to keep a good lab notebook. I actually remember, sometimes I remember it too when we’re training the next wave of scientists, and somebody has like a bad notebook or something and I remind myself oh, I remember when I had a bad notebook. And, you know, and I think when you, as you become more senior in the scientific world, like probably in any field, but certainly in the scientific field, the expectations are higher that you already know how to do these things. But when you’re in the very beginning–when you’re in high school, when you’re in undergrad–there is no expectation that you know these things yet. And you’re like, you’re just open to learning. You haven’t been formed yet into particular ways of doing things. And it was just, it was a really special time to feel that a person that was teaching me–a professor was like taking the time to really show me what [it is]–to have a good notebook, to set a good experiment, to have a testable hypothesis. I still think about those times a lot.

Sarah: So I feel like it’s also the most influential part for me in science. It’s just learning so many new people who have these diverse interests, but are all coming together for one goal: to make an impact for the future with this research, hoping it leads to somewhere.

Shimla: Kind of on the same route, what is the most underrated skill that is not talked about enough but is essential for someone to have in science?

Lamia: I would say maybe being organized. I feel like there’s this idea of the frazzle-brained scientist who’s a little…isn’t always all there. Yeah. Isn’t always fully engaged or concentrated. But I think being– I’m someone that values highly values organization. And so you’ll see, I mean, you can see my bench on the way out, it’s always neatly organized. I like to have everything laid out in a way that I know where everything is and take meticulous notes. And yeah, I would say that.

Sarah: What advice would you give to high school or college students who are thinking about having careers in science?

Lamia: I mean, I feel like you guys are doing the right thing, which is get[ting] experience, like doing actual research as much as possible. Get really exposed to the– You know, beyond the textbook science, which makes science sound so much cleaner and more straightforward than it actually is, ’cause it’ll give you an experience of what it’s like to really ask a question that nobody’s asked before and find an answer that nobody has seen before. And you have to remind yourself of that ’cause a lot of times it’s like, sure, it’s not like every experiment you’re gonna do is gonna be an earth-shattering result. But a lot of times it’s like, oh, I’m the only person that knows this answer. Or maybe there’s a handful of people, but there’s billions of people on the planet and only two or three people have seen this answer to this question before. And it’s like, it’s very cool to be able to experience that.

And find really good mentors, right? You guys already have an instinct for who’s a good mentor, who’s not. If you don’t, if you work with someone and they’re not a good mentor, just don’t come back. Find someone else.

Shimla: I would love to continue, but we’re already over time.

Sarah: Thank you so much.

Lamia: Thank you guys so much. It was lovely to chat with you.

Shimla: This was very interesting.

[OUTRO]

Sarah: And I was like, oh my God.

Shimla: I know! When she said Only Murders in the Building, I was shocked.

Sarah: Yeah.

Shimla: Everyone else I talk about the show with, they have no idea.

Sarah: ‘Cause I’ve heard of it, but I might check it out.